mi-16evil, don't forget that the IMDb 250 only counts votes from "regular voters," hence it's 8.5 rating is actually much lower than the arithmetic mean of 9.2 and will often neglect votes from those who sign up simply to spam. Has there been some level of voter manipulation? Possibly, but I'd argue that it's also possible that many have actually loved the film that much. At least the reviews coming out of Venice and Telluride suggest so.
I'm not trying to say that I'm not a fan or Iranian cinema or unable to give A Separation a chance. Two of my most sought after directors are Mohsen Makhmalbaf and Abbas Kiarostami whose every film I try to acquire. I understand what you mean ThyCaptain about waiting forever for films you want to see. There's almost no availability for these two directors other than insanely overpriced Ebay DVDs. I think Iran and Korea are two of the most exciting places for filmmaking today. Iranian filmmakers are making these very unique sudo-metafictional works that cross the boundaries of art, film, documentary and autobiography (though it seems like A Separation is a more straight-forward narrative).
ThyCaptain, I definitely have to agree with your idea that I shouldn't be upset about it not being available in my country. I'm sure it's much more frustrating for Top 250 followers in any country other than America because so much of that site's traffic is based around the release of films in the West. Just look at how quickly Drive entered multiple IMDB lists after is Los Angeles premiere. So yeah I see your point, just because I can't see it doesn't make the film unworthy of the Top 250.
My main problem with A Separation is still the same: it's clearly a case of overrating the IMDB page to get attention for the film. There's been plenty of forum chatter about how fans have been rating the film higher than usual because of fear that the film might be buried by the Iranian government. Even if it's not the case, the simple statistics of A Separation's rating just don't add up (you can see my earlier post for more information about that). This could be due to the small group of dedicated film goers who are more prone to rate the film higher than the general population. This would just go with the classic case of films being grossly overrated by a small group of fans. I just hate that the Top 250 can become a marketing board like that. Perhaps it is for a good cause and certainly it is an effective strategy (I hadn't heard anything about the film before, other than that it had won the Golden Lion), but I just worry that it has now become "that film that 'no one' has seen on the Top 250" and not an excellent film from a booming cinematic country.
Also the fact that I am only 3 films away from finishing the Top 250 is driving me a little nuts. I don't care about the award, I just want to appease the completionistic nature inside of me.
"I gather some people often have an initial reaction of "low quality" when thinking about "a film from Iran" (or Turkey, for that matter), but these are not poor countries."
You're right - anyone who thinks like that is being willfully ignorant. Iranian cinema has exploded over the past few decades, and some of the most vital, mesmerizing films of that period have come from Iran (and other countries in the Middle East.) Additionally, some of the best and most important filmmakers in the world today - Kiarostami, Ghobadi, Panahi, Makhmalbaf - come from there. They aren't "hidden gems" championed by a relatively small number of film fans - anyone paying attention to the major festivals and trends in film over the last 25 years will have recognized the importance of Middle Eastern filmmakers in the worldwide filmmaking scene. In the case of "A Separation," its Golden Lion should ensure that it becomes available to English speakers eventually.
Also, I seem to remember from my days of caring about the IMDb lists that films like "Oldboy" and "Hero" appeared on the Top 250 months, even a year before they received distribution in the US (though, now that I think about it, I'm not sure if they were perhaps released earlier in places like the UK and Australia?)
Well said, ThyCaptain. Many consider Iranian cinema to be of the highest regard. Iranian films have won awards at almost every major film festival (including the top prize for A Separation at Berlin this year). In addition, Abbas Kiarostami is consistently ranked as one of the best contemporary directors by a multitude of critics and cinephiles.
I gather some people often have an initial reaction of "low quality" when thinking about "a film from Iran" (or Turkey, for that matter), but these are not poor countries. Iran has the 26th largest economy in the world (and Turkey is 17th). Undermining the quality of the cinema from these countries only adds to the level of ignorance that the West (especially America, since we're so used to the being overexposed to Hollywood) embodies.
Iranian cinema is quality. It's no surprise to see an iranian film in a top list. Lots of movies get in the top 250 weeks before being released outside the US, sometimes. And you don't see the rest of the world complaining that they shouldn't be in the top because we can't see it...
I'm not Iranian, and I didn't see "A Separation" yet, but I don't get the frustration.
"Many of us want to watch all the films on the IMDB Top 250 but are now stuck because one unattainable film keeps popping up." It's just a website award, it doesn't mean anything. And it's not unattainable, you just have to wait for a while. Sometimes I have to wait several weeks to watch a very popular movie that everybody talks about everywhere (I had to wait 2 months to see Black Swan in my city, for example), I have to avoid forums, film sites and reviews because of spoilers. Now THAT sucks.
@DeanWindow It's not that we don't want to give A Separation a chance it's that we are frustrated it keeps appearing on the IMDB Top 250 when it hasn't even been released in many international markets. Many of us want to watch all the films on the IMDB Top 250 but are now stuck because one unattainable film keeps popping up. I guarantee that when it finally is released with English subtitles that many people from this site will go see it and give it an honest evaluation. It's just frustrating that it may not happen for several months or possibly years.
The other problem is that the film is a clear example of Top 250 hacking. I can prove this very quickly. Go look at the distribution of votes for A Separation and The Shawshank Redemption. 75% of all of the votes for A Separation are 10s. Compare that with Shawshank, where 60% of the votes are 10s. Now if A Separation has 15% more tens than Shawshank, the highest ranked film on IMDB, that says something. It could say that A Separation is the best film of all time, but I doubt it. Doesn't mean it can't be brilliant, but it takes a while to reach a consensus like that. More likely the film suffers from either a high ranking from a relatively small niche group of viewers or it is the result of people voting highly to get the film on the Top 250 to garner more attention for the film and there have been rumors that this is why A Separation has appeared several times on the list.
I'm totally happy to give A Separation a chance! In fact, I'm dying to see it! It's only pissing me off because I can't get hold of it and it's making me unable to finish the list (still 15 to go, though).
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Comments 106 - 120 of 579
biggianthead
If you're in the UK, amazon says:This title will be released on October 24, 2011.
Hope that will solve the problem for a few of you.
dombrewer
See my post on the film's comment board: I saw it, I loved it, and I think it's a worthy inclusion to the Top 250 list. I hope it stays there.Life as Fiction
mi-16evil, don't forget that the IMDb 250 only counts votes from "regular voters," hence it's 8.5 rating is actually much lower than the arithmetic mean of 9.2 and will often neglect votes from those who sign up simply to spam. Has there been some level of voter manipulation? Possibly, but I'd argue that it's also possible that many have actually loved the film that much. At least the reviews coming out of Venice and Telluride suggest so.mi-16evil
I'm not trying to say that I'm not a fan or Iranian cinema or unable to give A Separation a chance. Two of my most sought after directors are Mohsen Makhmalbaf and Abbas Kiarostami whose every film I try to acquire. I understand what you mean ThyCaptain about waiting forever for films you want to see. There's almost no availability for these two directors other than insanely overpriced Ebay DVDs. I think Iran and Korea are two of the most exciting places for filmmaking today. Iranian filmmakers are making these very unique sudo-metafictional works that cross the boundaries of art, film, documentary and autobiography (though it seems like A Separation is a more straight-forward narrative).ThyCaptain, I definitely have to agree with your idea that I shouldn't be upset about it not being available in my country. I'm sure it's much more frustrating for Top 250 followers in any country other than America because so much of that site's traffic is based around the release of films in the West. Just look at how quickly Drive entered multiple IMDB lists after is Los Angeles premiere. So yeah I see your point, just because I can't see it doesn't make the film unworthy of the Top 250.
My main problem with A Separation is still the same: it's clearly a case of overrating the IMDB page to get attention for the film. There's been plenty of forum chatter about how fans have been rating the film higher than usual because of fear that the film might be buried by the Iranian government. Even if it's not the case, the simple statistics of A Separation's rating just don't add up (you can see my earlier post for more information about that). This could be due to the small group of dedicated film goers who are more prone to rate the film higher than the general population. This would just go with the classic case of films being grossly overrated by a small group of fans. I just hate that the Top 250 can become a marketing board like that. Perhaps it is for a good cause and certainly it is an effective strategy (I hadn't heard anything about the film before, other than that it had won the Golden Lion), but I just worry that it has now become "that film that 'no one' has seen on the Top 250" and not an excellent film from a booming cinematic country.
Also the fact that I am only 3 films away from finishing the Top 250 is driving me a little nuts. I don't care about the award, I just want to appease the completionistic nature inside of me.
Timec
"I gather some people often have an initial reaction of "low quality" when thinking about "a film from Iran" (or Turkey, for that matter), but these are not poor countries."You're right - anyone who thinks like that is being willfully ignorant. Iranian cinema has exploded over the past few decades, and some of the most vital, mesmerizing films of that period have come from Iran (and other countries in the Middle East.) Additionally, some of the best and most important filmmakers in the world today - Kiarostami, Ghobadi, Panahi, Makhmalbaf - come from there. They aren't "hidden gems" championed by a relatively small number of film fans - anyone paying attention to the major festivals and trends in film over the last 25 years will have recognized the importance of Middle Eastern filmmakers in the worldwide filmmaking scene. In the case of "A Separation," its Golden Lion should ensure that it becomes available to English speakers eventually.
Also, I seem to remember from my days of caring about the IMDb lists that films like "Oldboy" and "Hero" appeared on the Top 250 months, even a year before they received distribution in the US (though, now that I think about it, I'm not sure if they were perhaps released earlier in places like the UK and Australia?)
Life as Fiction
Well said, ThyCaptain. Many consider Iranian cinema to be of the highest regard. Iranian films have won awards at almost every major film festival (including the top prize for A Separation at Berlin this year). In addition, Abbas Kiarostami is consistently ranked as one of the best contemporary directors by a multitude of critics and cinephiles.I gather some people often have an initial reaction of "low quality" when thinking about "a film from Iran" (or Turkey, for that matter), but these are not poor countries. Iran has the 26th largest economy in the world (and Turkey is 17th). Undermining the quality of the cinema from these countries only adds to the level of ignorance that the West (especially America, since we're so used to the being overexposed to Hollywood) embodies.
Lord X
Iranian cinema is quality. It's no surprise to see an iranian film in a top list. Lots of movies get in the top 250 weeks before being released outside the US, sometimes. And you don't see the rest of the world complaining that they shouldn't be in the top because we can't see it...I'm not Iranian, and I didn't see "A Separation" yet, but I don't get the frustration.
"Many of us want to watch all the films on the IMDB Top 250 but are now stuck because one unattainable film keeps popping up." It's just a website award, it doesn't mean anything. And it's not unattainable, you just have to wait for a while. Sometimes I have to wait several weeks to watch a very popular movie that everybody talks about everywhere (I had to wait 2 months to see Black Swan in my city, for example), I have to avoid forums, film sites and reviews because of spoilers. Now THAT sucks.
Joschi
@mi-16evil. I don't see why thre should only be titles in the Top 250 that are available in english or with english subtitles.The rest of there world has to deal with thousands of movies that are not available in their language.
If I would do so I could criticise half of the "2010s" list...
araripe
Dr. Strangelove's Kubrik best rated movie on 34th place! I'm kinda WOW... twice!Trun0-Jay
Wow, so many changes since the last time I tallied. Makes me wonder just how many have been bumped off.nosex
hopefully STALKER will stay on a little longer this time.mi-16evil
@DeanWindow It's not that we don't want to give A Separation a chance it's that we are frustrated it keeps appearing on the IMDB Top 250 when it hasn't even been released in many international markets. Many of us want to watch all the films on the IMDB Top 250 but are now stuck because one unattainable film keeps popping up. I guarantee that when it finally is released with English subtitles that many people from this site will go see it and give it an honest evaluation. It's just frustrating that it may not happen for several months or possibly years.The other problem is that the film is a clear example of Top 250 hacking. I can prove this very quickly. Go look at the distribution of votes for A Separation and The Shawshank Redemption. 75% of all of the votes for A Separation are 10s. Compare that with Shawshank, where 60% of the votes are 10s. Now if A Separation has 15% more tens than Shawshank, the highest ranked film on IMDB, that says something. It could say that A Separation is the best film of all time, but I doubt it. Doesn't mean it can't be brilliant, but it takes a while to reach a consensus like that. More likely the film suffers from either a high ranking from a relatively small niche group of viewers or it is the result of people voting highly to get the film on the Top 250 to garner more attention for the film and there have been rumors that this is why A Separation has appeared several times on the list.
Olum
Finally Stalker got into the list. Well deserved!KatForsyth
I'm totally happy to give A Separation a chance! In fact, I'm dying to see it! It's only pissing me off because I can't get hold of it and it's making me unable to finish the list (still 15 to go, though).tommy_leazaq
Platinum at last... :)As long as "A Separation" stays out of the list I'll maintain the platinum..
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